How the Minister of Housing wants to encourage landlords to lower their rents

Capital: The supply shock promised at the start of the five-year term by Emmanuel Macron never happened. Were the consultations you conducted aimed at reviving housing production?

Emmanuelle Wargon: the “Living in the France of tomorrow” approach, initiated in February and carried out collectively, aimed to build a vision, a project for housing. It was not a question of producing emergency measures to meet needs. These emergency measures for housing, in reality, they have already been identified and proposed by the commission chaired by François Rebsamen. And we will translate them from this fall, in the 2022 finance bill. The objective that we have set ourselves with this consultation is above all to project ourselves into the future, to propose strategic orientations . And, where possible, take supportive action. But for that, it is necessary to have a broad, overall vision. You can't just focus on housing. It is also a subject of town planning, regional planning, transport, working methods… The idea is to think about the habitat of tomorrow, ecological and desirable, while meeting needs.

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Isn't there an apparent contradiction between the need to build and the desire to better protect the environment?

The challenge is above all to succeed in overcoming this opposition, because it leads to a refusal of new constructions. Building does not mean concrete. We can build in wood, with green spaces, and thus make the habitat pleasant and more respectful of the environment. You can also build soberly, mobilizing very little land. But for that, you have to agree to densify. Here too, we must show the French that there are dense forms that are very pleasant to live with. An illuminating example: during a trip within the framework of this approach, I went to Rennes, where I visited a rehabilitation program in a priority district of the city's policy. The operation consisted in renovating HLM towers set on a slab, while creating additional housing. And the architect explained to me that the initial density of the district, contrary to what one might think of a district of city policy, was much lower than that of a Haussmannian city center. Because between the towers, there were a lot of spaces, but especially parking lots, which were not pleasant and did not give the impression of an airy district. There is therefore sometimes a discrepancy between the actual density and the perceived density.

The acceptability of the projects therefore depends on the comfort and quality of the habitat...

Absolutely ! And I am convinced that the return to voluntary construction in France depends on the quality of the programs. Environmental quality and quality of use. It is much easier to get citizens to accept the construction of a new building if you build with sustainable materials, with through apartments, brighter, larger and more voluminous, with terraces on each floor and gardens below . This is also the purpose of the new quality housing benchmark that I am presenting and which is based on the conclusions of the mission entrusted to François Leclercq and Laurent Girometti. Some of the quality criteria, in addition to a list of environmental criteria, will also condition the conservation of the current rates of the Pinel tax reduction, as of 2023. The decree specifying these conditions will be put out for public consultation in the next days.

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In addition to quality, one of the big issues is housing prices, which are rising again and again. How do you plan to curb this inflation?

We can't let prices soar forever. The social housing stock, the intermediate housing stock and private rental investments do not make it possible to offer enough housing at affordable prices. It is therefore necessary to mobilize the existing private stock to regulate the market and generate much more supply at moderate rents. To do this, we are going to reform the “Louer Affordable” rental investment system. Renting Affordable is a tool that allows a landlord to benefit from a tax advantage when he agrees to rent his accommodation at prices below market prices, to people who are means-tested. Clearly, you rent a little cheaper to less wealthy tenants, but you keep a comparable return thanks to a tax reduction... And you are doing a good deed. The problem is that this tool is complicated, that it overlaps with two other devices and that its parameters, rents and tax criteria, are not well calibrated. So much so that the owners do not find themselves there.

What are you going to change?

We will simplify it first. Then, it must be made more incentive. To do this, we are going to modify the rent ceilings and the tax advantages so that, locally, the yield for landlords is comparable to the yields observed on the free market. The discount on rents and tax reductions will be calibrated so that the system becomes attractive, especially in the most tense territories, in which this is not the case today. Finally, we are going to communicate more widely about this tool, so that it is better known to owners. This should allow the return to the market of a certain number of vacant dwellings and encourage certain landlords, when they are looking for a tenant, to subscribe to the scheme and thus lower their rent.

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You are undertaking this work as the presidential election is fast approaching. Why not have initiated these reflections at the start of the term of office?

Time was needed to launch this process. I initiated it because I felt the need to produce this vision, to pose it and to share it with all the actors. So, yes, there is short-term action, with the end of the term of office, and priorities largely committed to: the construction of 250,000 social housing units in two years, pushed to the maximum, the revaluation of the act of building, the reform of HLM attributions, the overhaul of Louer Affordable, the continuation of efforts in terms of energy renovation… We cannot say that the Ministry of Housing is only now waking up to act. The reflections resulting from Living in the France of tomorrow are also a form of legacy, the vision carried by this majority on the future: how to meet the aspirations of the French while joining the climate and environmental challenge? I am certain that the ministers who will follow will be able to capitalize on this long-term vision.

On energy renovation, you have reinforced the budgetary effort on MaPrimeRénov' for next year. Do you hope that this dynamic will continue beyond?

We have effectively increased the MaPrimeRénov' envelope by 1 billion euros, which brings the total budget appropriations to 2 billion euros for the year 2022. We have therefore created the stability that is requested by all the actors of renovation, with a budget base that no longer depends on temporary credits from the Recovery Plan. Of course, I can't predict what the next term will do, but I tend to think that whoever is elected, there is very little risk of them questioning the dynamic.

The Court of Auditors recently challenged your government on the energy efficiency of MaPrimeRénov', because in 85% of cases it finances single-step work. Do you have any estimates of the actual energy savings generated by the device?

It's true, the energy savings generated are an important indicator of the effectiveness of this policy. But I'm still waiting for the estimates for 2020, which should be available by the end of the year or early 2022. What I can say is that in 2019, even before the launch of MaPrimeRénov', aid for energy renovation enabled 7.2 terawatt hours of energy savings, or 50% more than in 2016. And my intuition is that MaPrimeRénov' will reinforce this trend. Because the aid has been adjusted to the quality of the gestures: it is all the more important as the works enable energy and carbon savings. For example, on heating changes, the switch to wood pellets, geothermal energy or heat pumps, which help to act for the climate, is much more subsidized than the switch to natural gas.

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The High Council for the Climate nevertheless recommends eliminating aid for individual gestures for MaPrimeRénov' and energy saving certificates. Are you going to tend towards this recommendation?

It should be kept in mind that not all French people are ready to undertake a comprehensive renovation of their home. We must therefore proceed in stages. This year, we opened MaPrimeRénov' for comprehensive renovations. Next year, it will be merged with the Habiter Mieux Sérénité program of the National Housing Agency (a device reserved for low-income households, editor's note), which means that there will only be one device for comprehensive renovations. Then, we will move on to the next step from January, since we are triggering “Mon Accompagnateur Rénov”. It is a service offer, with a licensed professional in charge of making personalized work recommendations. This guide is precisely intended to lead households towards more ambitious renovations, including by offering financing solutions for these operations, which often represent several tens of thousands of euros. The year 2022 will be a year of transition, for the service to be set up, for households to identify guides, etc. And from 2023, we will be more coercive, since we will make it compulsory to use this guide beyond a certain amount of work or subsidy. This means that to award you 10,000 euros in aid, you will have to check beforehand that you have a coherent work program in relation to your accommodation.

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Does this mean that the owners will be required to undertake the work that this Rénov' guide recommends them to do?

No, I don't want to force people to do work. I think that doesn't work and that's the line I've always taken. The only situation in which we will force them to do so is when they are rented out (with the future ban on the rental of thermal colanders, editor's note). So no, if you want to do work on your home and benefit from a significant amount of assistance as of January 1, 2023, you will have to call on this Renovation Coach, who may recommend that you change your boiler, d insulate the walls and the roof… But you will not be required to carry out the entire work program if you feel that you are unable to do so. What we hope is that this service offer, which also makes it possible to apply for all the financing that can be mobilized, will encourage some households to go all the way, even step by step. And we will see later if it is necessary to go further.

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